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Un Treaty to Ban Guns http://mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=46858	Page 1 of 1

Author:	daddyflea [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:12 am ]
Post subject:	Un Treaty to Ban Guns
I keep hearing about Obama trying to sign a UN Treaty that would ban gun ownership for private citizens. RangerP please weigh in on this. My Brother said that he thought it only failed by 2 votes. I know many Gun Owners would fight UN troops if they moved in to confiscate guns, myself included. I would have a real problem firing on our Military. Evidently this is seen as a problem by Obama as well, due to his recent questions for Officer candidates I wonder if any of these fears are valid at all. Like RangerP I still instruct firearms in limited circumstances and used to be a Civilian instructor. Like RangerP I have a wide range of interests but unlike RangerP, I am getting old. I no longer have patients nor do I fear the consequences of disobedience. My kids are grown and I worry about their future more than they do.

Author:	rangerp [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
I am familiar with this topic, but should read up more. The NRA has done a couple articles on it that are worth a read. Kerry signed it, but it would take a senate approval to have us abide. The problem with something like this being signed by the president is that it never goes away, and if there is ever a super majority in the congress then this could get signed into law on our books. It is my understanding that the treaty or bill gives some oversight in gun sale tracking and ownership registration records to the UN. I wish we could push the UN off into the Ocean. It always seems to work against us.

Author:	daddyflea [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	rangerp [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Marxists government do not take guns, the people willingly give them up. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~ Ben Franklin

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
From what I read this Un treaty was just to limit the trading internationaly in small arms. Mostly aimed at assult rifles and automatic weapons crossing boarders into conflict zones. Do you have to register rifles already?

Author:	daddyflea [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:44 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	rangerp [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Here are a couple articles on it. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09 ... -block-it/ http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavli ... s-n1709440 http://washingtonexaminer.com/nra-blast ... le/2536367

Author:	K'jun [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
I don't think Louisiana folks would give up their guns either, they can have mine out of my cold hands.

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	cb5331 [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	rangerp [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Assault Rifles are the black scary ones with those big 30 round clippy things. Just ask Dianne Feinstein . Notice that in the past 5 years, not one murder in the US was attributed to an NRA member, but Obama and Feinstein are sure hell bent on hating the NRA. Of all murders in the US last year, less than 4% were done with rifles (even less with "assault rifles"). More people were killed with knives than with rifles. That being the case, why does Obama want my rifle so badly? Obama was a politician in the failed Chicago area (so why did we elect someone from failure?). Chicago led the nation in murder last year. In Chicago and LA, 70% of murders and violent crime were gang related. So why is Obama and Feinstein not mentioning Bloods, Cripps, Vice Lords, MS13....? Why do they hate "those people that cling to their guns and Bibles" and while they ignore those that actually kill, they hate the law abiding Americans. Murder in America may not be connected to NRA membership, but it is sure connected to welfare, food stamps, public housing, rap music, multicultural education.... Could it be that Obama would rather go after the law abiding conservatives, and not say a peep about the democrat voting folks that actually do the killing? Take a look at world history, and Marxist/communists/socialists always take away guns. Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Castro.... all did it. Obama governs with the same promise of "redistribution of wealth". Is it any wonder that he also wants guns out of the hands of US citizens. He generally voted "present" when he was a state senator, but check his record on gun control. he was all for it. Also remember that Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the US. And just where did Obama govern? Also keep in mind that in America, blacks make up 12.5% of the population, but they are doing 50% of the nation's murders annually. Of all people killed in America last year, half were black. If we lowered the number of black murders to equal their percentage of the population, we would lower the national murder per capita rate by almost 40% and have a lower murder rate than Luxemburg (and they do not even allow citizens to own guns). This would also save black lives. I want to save black lives, but it is obvious that Obama and crowd are not to concerned. They have the same stats as I do, but they refuse to speak on the matter. even when pressed on it, they barely mutter a word. Of all nations, the US owns more guns per 100 people than any other (we have 88). that being said, there are 27 nations with higher murder rates. Honduras only has a meager 6.6 guns per 100 people, but they lead the world in murder. Liberals know that less guns does not equate to less murder, but they still want to take them. They know that liberty of free people rests on their ability to bear arms, and they are not supporters of true liberty. heck, just look at their mandated healthcare being rammed down our throats.

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Firstly our arms laws are based on sports based ownership not an arms race with criminals. We call Milatry styled semi automatic MSSA, so only semis freestanding pistol grips, mags over 7 rounds. automatics are illegal to be used with live ammo but owned by collectors and used with blanks in things like ww2 renactments . Self defence is not a legitiment reason to get a licence over here. We can and do still own handguns and Mssa and belt feeds but just under conditions and lock and key. I like shooting hand guns as much a ruhr next guy but I'm happy I dont have to carry.

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Nz has 230000 licensed owners holding 1.1million firearms and a population of only 4 million, and our gun murder rate is .26 per 100000. http://www.police.govt.nz/advice/firear ... ms-licence http://www.police.govt.nz/about-us/publ ... troduction Here's the nuts and bolts of our law. I really don't think it would work for the US.

Author:	BERNIE255 [ Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
My only president is Ambrose Burnside(founder of NRA) and if this happens how will they get every single firearm from us? go door to door?

Author:	daddyflea [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	danimalw [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
My take on the UN Treaty is this... President LieObama wants to disarm American Citizens, he knows he can't do it alone, BUT if enough traitorous Congressman sign the treaty, then he can get the UN involved to go door to door. I am calling anyone who signs that treaty a traitor and I do believe this would qualify... "Giving aid to the enemy during time of war." Well, aren't we in a perpetual War on Terror?? Wouldn't this treaty give a non US organization control over our Constitution, thereby giving aid to a possible enemy? Maybe that's a simplistic view, but that's how I am letting my Congressman know, that they should vote against it anytime it comes in front of them.

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Sorry what I ment was I dont have to carry simply because there is no threats and I have little to no threats likely to occur at home either. Hell I dont even lock my ute in the driveway. I find it hard to fathom living in a place where id have the need to have loaded weapons close much like its completely foreign to you that strangers are generally trustworthy people and pose no harm. Well how about the idea of not changing the way you can purchase or controlling the way you aquire arms now but change the way you purchase and store ammo. Before I get jumped on think about if you had a min licence and locked storage requirement for ammo would that slow the available ammo on the streets in the hands of criminals.

Author:	rangerp [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Walkers - gov control of guns or ammo is a violation of our 2nd Amendment.

Author:	rangerp [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Walkers asked "Before I get jumped on think about if you had a min licence and locked storage requirement for ammo would that slow the available ammo on the streets in the hands of criminals" Crack, meth, and coke, are all against the law to have, and our streets are full of it. If criminals want it, they will get it. Kill the criminals, and you have less crime.

Author:	Bigbuckfever [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
The availability of already regulated and illegal items (such as meth, heroine, and cocaine) is so great that i firmly believe regulating only makes law abiding citizens' live's more difficult. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Author:	daddyflea [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
See we're 70% white,15% maori, 9% asian, 7% pacific islanders and the rest is mixed. I agree drugs and poverty drive crime but I dont think removing welfare will fix it if anything crime will go up. Nz has a welfare system and free health care and whatever you think about our arms laws they are commonly held as one of the worlds best, giving responsible citizens free to all arms types and limiting access to criminals. However our police and health system work well together when mental illness is diagnosised and your and guns be removed, same with domestic violence.

Author:	rangerp [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
You do not have 48 million folks on food stamps. Your population is much less "diverse" than ours, and thus so is your crime.

Author:	rangerp [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Walkers stated "I dont think removing welfare will fix it if anything crime will go up" Dguidry makes that claim, and I always find that interesting. It is interesting for a few reasons. For starters, prior to our welfare system, we had less crime. In our areas of the highest welfare, we have the highest crime. Most intriguing is the fact that you are basically saying that some people are genetically less than the rest of us, and thus we need to pay them off so they will not commit crimes? I find it funny that when I mention that millions of Mexicans come here to do the work that we pay lazy folks not to do; most never let that sink in, think about it, apply it, or will even answer to it, but it is true. We pay lazy people not to work; they in turn do crimes, dugs, and breed at a faster rate (and they vote democrat). So how do you ID the folks that need welfare so they will not do crime? Is there some genetic indicator at birth?

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Thats very in Pc but you are right some races seem to be more inclined to laziness and crime. The have issues with generations of welfare dependant families and I think its taught in the home. When you had your government shutdown and the handouts stopped did the crime rate climb?

Author:	cb5331 [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
You talking about a few weeks ago? Handouts didn't stop... We weren't going to pay any debts, but all of our politicians got paid and the welfare checks still went out...In Louisiana, they actually got a bonus because the system crashed and walmart let them buy whatever they wanted with no limits. In a way, I guess crime did go up, but nothing will be done about it. They probably won't even have to pay back their over spending.

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Well what about the securing of unattended firearms and ammo? I dont mean your carry or home defence gun but the ones you dont intend on using for a week a month. What Nz found was accidental shooting by children all but stopped

Author:	cb5331 [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
We don't care about NZ, and we don't want anyone telling us where or how we should store our guns or ammo. Our constitution says the government has no right to do so. How many accidental shootings by children do you think happen here? Of those, how many of those guns do you think were acquired legally? I know in my family, we knew at a very, very young age that guns were not toys. We were not even allowed to point cap guns at each other. Gun safety is the responsibility of the parents, not the government. If you have guns in your house and don't secure them, that's on you. It's not the governments responsibility to protect us from ourselves. I don't have children, but my guns, if I had any, would be in a safe, and our guns in the house growing up were in a safe.

Author:	Bigbuckfever [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	rangerp [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
In America, accidental gun deaths are but a tiny fraction of accidental deaths. Rosie O-Fat-butt and the lib crowd try to lie about it, but it is minimal. More kids die drowning their own bathtub that by accidental shootings. The mass amount of accidental deaths is from auto accidents and taking away people's second car will not lower it. Most deaths of children by gun is teen gang members shooting the piss out of each other, or drive by shootings where the gang members shoot fellow democrat voters when they indiscriminately shoot into crowds and buildings.

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	cb5331 [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
Sorry to be so blunt about it, WBS, but that's the reality of it. We don't need more gun laws, we need to enforce the ones we already have, and actually get rid of some of them. Almost all of these highly publicized mass shootings happen in gun free zones. People who are doing these mass shootings are cowards. If they knew they were likely to be confronted by someone who was able to properly defend themselves, they'd probably just stay home and blow their brains out all by themselves. We need to start locking people up when they are caught with illegally acquired weapons. We need to start locking up felons in possession. We need to use what we already have, and on top of that make it easier for us to defend ourselves if necessary. The areas with the strictest gun laws usually have the most amount of violent crimes...imagine that... The law abiding citizens have allowed themselves to be disarmed, and now have no way to protect themselves against criminals who have no regard for the laws anyway..

Author:	cb5331 [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	danimalw [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	Walkers Bay Synd [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
CB Sounds like our punishments growing up weren't that different. My Dad was a professional shooter and we grew up with guns in the house like machincs have cars in the drive but nit everybody had that level of exposure. My kids know about the hazards of guns and the rules of messing with my safe. It sounds like something is quite wrong in the system if illegal arms and criminals are being let away with being in possession.

Author:	cb5331 [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
They might be taken to jail, but they are usually free again and right back to doing illegal shit as soon as they get out. We are not enforcing the laws like we should be. The system is broken. There is not much else to say about it.

Author:	Bigbuckfever [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns

Author:	danimalw [ Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Un Treaty to Ban Guns
My ex-mother-in-law's brother was murdered by a career violent felon who was paroled. When he on trial for Gibbon's murder, he said, "Yeah I did it...because he was white and he was there." Great justice system... Oh and the scumbag repeatedly smashed Gibbon's head into a parking curb, crushing his skull. So sorry if I don't trust the Government to do the right thing...since they treat law abiding citizens like criminals and not punishing real criminals.

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