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Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
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Author:  Over the LINE [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Well, I waited til I was sure I was getting screwed before I started talkin but here goes. Its long but its a long story.

Back last April I took delivery of a brand new Carolina Skiff J-16 from Metro Boating in Harvey. I did a little rigging, fuel tank, running lights, etc. but did not splash the boat until August when Gator Tail installed my motor. I did not install anything in the deck until after the motor was on and then I put the seat and grab bar base. Both are well sealed with 3M 4200.

First time out the boat would not run. It porpoised so bad it was dangerous. This with 12 gallons of gas and the battery in the bow. I stopped at my camp and picked up two 72qt ice chest. I tied them to the bow and filled them full of water. Still not enough weight to keep the bow down.

I talked to the GT boys and they told me to put wedges on the boat. First hole I drilled, water comes out. I stopped and tried to call Carolina. Friday afternoon and noone there. Monday morning I go to Metro show them the boat, with less than an hour on it. They send the pictures to Carolina who tells me don't worry, can't rot, not that much water can get in there, foam won't soak up water. I change where the wedges are mounted, I put them too close to the center line, and this time get a stream of water so heavy I have to stop drilling to keep my drill from gettin ruined. I go round and round with Carolina and finally decide huntin season is here and its time to let it lie until after it closes.

I use the boat during duck season, not as much as I normally would but a man's got to hunt. One run with me, wife, dog and what is left from a weekend at the camp, the boat will not plane until I find prop draggin shallow water.

After duck season ends, I bring the boat to GT and have them pull the motor. I strip the boat of almost all the extra parts, weigh it from a crane scale and bring it to Metro. I tell them that it has, by my calculations about 140 pounds of water in it (thats about 17 gallons) and a crown about 18" in front of the transom.

Metro tells me Carolina wants me to weigh the boat again and take a picture of it hanging from the scale. I tell them I want Carolina to tell me how to weigh it and have a Metro employee around when it happens to verify. I also want a letter from Carolina agreeing that if heavy it is a bad hull.

Carolina changes their mind and now says only scale they will use is at their factory in Waycross Georgia. Bring it here and we will look at it. If we determine there is something wrong then we will fix it. Metro said oh well we can only do what Carolina tells us.

I picked up the boat and got a marine surveyor who said the bottom is so bad there is no way it will run right. I filled suit a week ago against both Metro and Carolina. It is just plain stupid. That hull retails for $1600, what maybe $800 to Carolina Skiff sitting at the dealer, but instead of making good they are making me sue. I had a Carolina Skiif about 15 years ago I bought from Metro, man have times changed.
Author:  craig [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Well don't feel bad. You tried to do the right thing but they chose not to. I think you exhausted all your means on this issue. You would think that carolin and/or metro would have replaced the boat as to not jeoperdize their reputation. I would go on every huntin/fishin website i could find and post exactly what you have posted here, the same way you posted it here. You don't want to get ugly yet and risk them counter suing for slander. Good luck on this and keep us posted as to what happens.
Author:  BROOKS [ Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Well ~ I say suck a sue and whup the mans butt !!!!

:lol:

On a serious side ~ Here on MMT we gots several dealers that work with the manufactors and thay probly gots some good input on how to handle yore situations.

To me tho ~ It sounds like yore boathull didn't come out the mold right and thay should warrenty it....Peroid !!!

Good Luck !!!!
Author:  Mud Slinger [ Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
not wise to buy a rig before you test drive it to make sure you like it and it runs right. Ever bought a car you didnt test drive first, even if your buddy got the same rig?
Author:  Over the LINE [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
I would think 50%, or more, of the guys on here bought rigs without a test drive, at least new rigs. I also think anyone that has owned more than a few boats has bought at least one without getting it wet. I have done it 6 times that I can remember. Five of them worked out great including a Carolina Skiff bought from Metro Boating, just not this Carolina Skiff.

Buying a Carolina Skiff and bringing it to GT for a motor is only different from an Aucoin, Brother Breaux, etc. cause it is made out of fiberglass. You buy the hull from one guy bring it to the motor guy and have the engine installed. If something is wrong with the hull, you hope that the hull manufacturer stands begind his product. Not so in my case.
Author:  Brinkleydog [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Never drove my motor or hull before i bought it because i new the manufactures would back there product.

Good luck on the issue.

I got what you need if you want to slap the GTR on it let me know..... :mrgreen:
Author:  Jon Galbahny [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  Gatorpoint [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  craig [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  BROOKS [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
One mo comment .... He "knew" what he was makin' the purchace on ....





He just gots a bad one !!!

No big deal .. on his or the manufactor's fault .....

Just Fix the Dang Thang and gits him back where he wanted to be !!!!
Author:  craig [ Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  swampmonkey [ Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
sucxs because he bought the hull for its light weight & supposedly water tight floatation. i guess bad construction techniques or this possibly being a rare defect make carolina's so cheap/relatively inexpensive. i say - take it to 'em/make 'em pay & spread da word
Author:  Duckweed [ Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Hey Overtheline,

Just want to say thanks for having the determination not to let these guys screw you over without a fight.

I think it is unbelieveably shameful that you even have to go through this process to get satisfaction on an issue that should have been automatic.

I have seen way too many unscrupulous people use every trick in the book to discourage customers from pursuing proper product satisfaction after a problem arises rather than step up and do the right thing immediately.

Their actions prove they were only interested in getting your money instead of providing good product in exchange for your good money.

Don't let them get away with it! I sure hope you succeed, it would be a real travesty of justice if they get away with this.

Hang tough! :evil:
Author:  Over the LINE [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Here's the update:

Carolina Skiff / Metro Boating-1

Me-0

Basically, I brought a knife to gunfight. They showed up with five guys and a lawyer. I showed up by myself.

My survey that proved the hull is bad was not allowed because I did not bring the surveyor with me to testify. And the lawyer flat out kicked my butt. I am no lawyer, should have brought one. I can think of all the right answers now but it is too late. It was only small claims court, so I have 15 days to appeal to real court. Maybe I will and for that I have to bring my own mouthpiece.

I really can't stand to be taken atvantage of and am mad enough to throw good money after bad, if you know what I mean. I am at the point where I would rather give my lawyer the money than let them keep it. At least he will take me to lunch.

They did offer a last minute settlement but it was way too late, as far as I was concerned. Hell, the new hull is in the mold now. What was I supposed to do wait around til next duck season?

Got to love the wife though. She justs wants the whole mess to go away and is ready to say oh well about the money, turn it over to our lawyer or take the hull out and burn it, she does not care. Just worried this $ 4,000 is going to give me an ulcer.
Author:  stanco [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
wow, that really does suck. :( Chalk it as lesson learned.

As for taking above small claims, I would. You can also claim lawyer fees in your suit.
Author:  H2O DOG [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
If this happened to me I would be posting pictures and a more detailed and eloquent telling of the story on every single boating/hunting web page on the net.

I didn't buy a GT based on some things I read about them and the way I see it, that's a huge sale that they lost because of one dissatisfied customer who told his story. Hit em where it hurts.
Author:  dead animal [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
double post, sorry. :oops:
Author:  dead animal [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  jpc014 [ Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Metro is one of the worst boat dealers in the new orleans metro area, they are a horrible service provider for everything... they do what they want to when they want to and make you wait forever to have any type of service with anything. Personally, when I have trouble with my PD I dont even think about sending it to them b/c they do it on there time and playing field, they are not willing to work with anyone. Sad b/c they carry boats that others dont in that area and ppl go away to buy boats just so they dont have to deal with' em.
Author:  Duckweed [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Very sorry to hear how your court hearing went, however, it illustrates how important it is to have legal counsel when you are in a legal battle.....you must have legal help!

I won't try to influence your decision on whether or not to continue pursuing justice through our court system, such is a personal decsion, but if you go forward, make sure you have a lawyer to represent you.

I have a hunch you would have won in small claims court if you had had legal counsel to combat their lawyer....you had good evidence on your side but weren't trained to fight the battle.

Like you said," You brought a knife to a gun fight", and that is too bad, dont make the same mistake again.
Author:  NyRed [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
It really sucks that this is what our court system has come to that you have to have a lawyer to even have a chance at what is rightfully yours.
Author:  Over the LINE [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
I should have brought my lawyer and I should have brought my surveyor, but I cheaped out. Together I am sure that they would have cost me about $ 1500 for the morning. I had legal advice and really what, after discussing the outcome with my lawyer this morning, should have been a strong case. Like my lawyer told me when I started, even the worst case has a 20% chance of success. I got beat by a lawyer not cause the boat is not bad. No decision was made as to the boat only how I must proceed. I think I should have dropped the money and filed in real court. I still may drop another 2K and appeal. I'm pretty mad (language cleaned up for this family web site).

I know the defense lawyer, went to High School with him for a couple of years. Like I told him yesterday, I should have gone to law school just so I can live in the 21st century. It seems like "right" is only what you can prove in court.

But even though I "lost", they are not getting off. The warranty, for what it is worth, did not go away. They are still responsible to replace or repair the hull.

I am a member of Boat US. They opened a file very early on in this. I might just sick them on Carolina Skiff, survey in hand, and see what happens. They will go to battle for you with a manufacturer in a dispute like this.

This I just had to add, yesterday when I asked how this hull could be 42% overweight based on their process, the Warranty Manager (I think he was called) explained how they may have shot some extra out of the chopper gun. He then went on to explain how this would mean more foam flotation and therefore a safer boat. I reminded him that chopper guns shoot glass not foam and did not help flotation but only added to the weight. Maybe I should have built my own boat.
Author:  TXSHOCKWAVE [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  dog walker [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
TxSW I was thinking the same thing but then I figured he had to be thinking of something somewhere else that he read,if not then the dumbass statement does apply.
Author:  forever draggin [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
this is absolute crazy. we arent talking about a small boat manufactuer. we are talking about a million dollar company wanna give every inch to the small guy. wish u luck buddy.
Author:  H2O DOG [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  brentfonty [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  Over the LINE [ Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
draggin,

According to the sales rep, one of the two guys Carolina Skiff sent down from Georgia for the trial, they have built some 5000 J-16's to date and are the largest seller of (some specific section of the market) ______ fiberglass boats. No they are not the little guy.
Author:  JD [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
At one time in small claims court if the other guy showed up with counsel, you would be allowed to recover your attny cost if you lawered up and won.

JD
Author:  netman [ Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Here is something to think about. When I was in college I worked at a car dealership. A guy buys a brand new station wagon and tells the salesman that he is going to use it to pull a horse trailer. The salesman said that the station wagon was not heavy enough for this purpose and would suggest a truck. The guy said he was only going to pull the trailer once or twice a year.
Well after the purchase the guy came back in and raised all kinds of cane that the station wagon would not even budge the horse trailer. Well to make a long story short this guy wanted out of the station wagon and the dealership said tuff luck.
Now this guy was no slacker. He parked the station wagon on the rightaway with yellow balloons all over his car. He would sit in front of the dealership all hours of the day and all day on saturday. His sign said ' another lemon from ......'
Well to make a long story shorter the dealership finally let the guy out of the vehicle. There was for sure a reduced number of customers while this guy was there. He even got some tv coverage. The guy was driven and motivated.
Something to think about with the economy the way it is.
What would that boat dealership think if you and your family sat outside their dealership with a negative sign on their product for a couple saturdays during prime time????
Randy
Author:  kill-n-eat [ Wed May 06, 2009 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  craig [ Wed May 06, 2009 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  kill-n-eat [ Wed May 06, 2009 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Just exactly what I said. A CS boat is not designed to handle the type of terrain a mud motor is. Now he may have gotten a bad hull, but if so, the dealer is not at fault, CS is. Anybody who is told a stationwagon is not desinged to pull a trailer but buys it anyway and then complains because it won't pull a trailer is the person in the wrong, not the dealership.
Author:  muddiejeep [ Wed May 06, 2009 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
But if the engine blows on the way home b/c an oil pick up isn't installed, who should you go to for them to replace it.
Author:  forever draggin [ Wed May 06, 2009 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  craig [ Wed May 06, 2009 8:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  kill-n-eat [ Thu May 07, 2009 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
The part that got me worked up was more the station wagon story than the boat. If the boat was bad CS should take care of it, but the warranty is with CS not the dealer. The station wagon story was about a guy that would not listen to reason and made his own decision then caused the dealer - who tried to set him straight - problems by stating the car was a lemon when it probably carried groceries and kids to soccer practice like a pro, but would not work like the truck it is not. Each situation is not the big deal, I am just getting fed up with people who do not take responsibility for their own actions! This was just the post that set me off. I will get off my soap box now and go back to work.
Author:  phowler [ Thu May 07, 2009 8:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
I agree about the guy with the wagon.

I spent nearly 7 years as a service advisor at a GM / Chrysler dealership and seen stuff like this although not as extreme. If I had been the owner of that dealership I would have called the local TV news and had them come down and interview the customer and salesman at the same time, as long as everything truely was on the up & up.
Author:  dead animal [ Thu May 07, 2009 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Author:  Over the LINE [ Thu May 07, 2009 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lawsuit against dealer & manufacturer
Kill an eat,


"the guy who buys a throw-away boat aka Carolina Skiff to use as a mud motor boat are the people at fault here. The dealership did nothing wrong in either case, but I guess since they are "rich business men" they should take the blame and eat the cost of keeping someone who bought the wrong equiptment for the job from being responsible for their own mistake."

Give me a break, what did I do wrong. They sold me a boat that is defective and refused to make it good. My money was good. I paid a deposit when asked and paid the balance when asked. How is this my mistake?

As far as the wrong equipment, why. It is rated for a 40hp, I am not the first guy to run one of these and last but not least I have a written quote from Metro Boating for a packeage deal: J-16, 36 Pro-Drive and a trailer.

Calling me part of the entitlement crowd, now thats just plain rude. I was not entitled to this boat, I earned it. Paid for it with after tax income. Now I am entitled to get what I paid for, a J-16. If you read this thread from the top you will notice what I got is not "Flat bottomed" "100% sealed" or "330 pounds" as described.
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