Hi all, I am new to the forum. Found it researching new boats and SD’s.

I have read several threads on SD’s but still have a few questions. There are not many SD/dedicated mud boat dealers in the area so I need a good idea of where to start before I call and head south to look and test drive. What I am sure of is that storage is a plus and that I can’t spring for a dual or remote setup.

I am in northern NY and am in the market for the ‘perfect’ boat (the one that does not exist, but still looking). I hunt big water as well as shallow marshes, we hunt well into freeze up.. Usually 2-3 hunters, two Chessies, blind plus gear, which can be allot in cold weather (guess 800lbs average). So far I am considering a 18’x 60” with a Pro Drive 36. Still way up in the air on boat manufacturer though. There is defiantly a budget in play.

First and most important question is how will a Pro Drive SD do in rough water, Lake Ontario and St Lawrence River, big swells, 30/40 mph winds, and plenty of chop? Will it be underpowered or will control be an issue? Is power trim a real benefit in open water? Am I going to have to choose one (SD) or the other (outboard)? I spend about 50% in open water and the other in marshes.
I picked the Pro Drive for a few reasons, shorter shaft, gear drive, and reverse. I am not interested in getting every ½ mph out of a SD but safety and control. There is a point where under powered becomes a safety issue

To add to that – I realize that hull design plays a big part. A 6 or 8 or 10 degree V is much better in rough water but a flat bottom is better in shallow and mud. There is also a consideration of hull design, rounded chine or square when used as a dual purpose boat?.

How much difference is there in open water stability (shooting platform stability) between a 54/56 and 60 hull?

I like the layout of the Excell boats but think there may be better options out there, like Phowler. Any thoughts on middle of the road design? I will not be running allot of tight creeks or channels, more open marsh water.

Should be enough to get started, what say you?

Go read the excell post on here before you think about an excell

Thanks for the heads up on Excel. Was really thinking I liked the layout and storage more then the boat itself. Hard to pick one without being on the water. Was thinking Phowler because of some design differences?

Big question is the SD performance in open and rough water? Am I going to be PO'd after the first trip in a two++ foot chop?

Question, would you run this bay area in a 25 outboard?

Check out gator trax boats, kent an his staff are great.

You will require heavy performance modifications to your motor to increase load carrying capability and to push the V-Bottom. If your marsh is sandy or rocky bottom versus mud I'd strongly recommend a Gator Tail instead of a prodrive and here's why. If you occasionally run rocky bottoms, etc, and you crack your lower unit, you will have major expense to repair or replace. Not so much with Gator Tail. You're likely to only crack shaft or break a rubber drive belt which is less expensive to replace than the gearing of a prodrive. Just my 2 cents.

IMsO ~ Big water, Big swells, 30/40 mph winds, = Very Big Boat ....... I wouldn't even consider a SurfaceDriveMudMotorMachineThang fo this application ..... unless yore feelin' suicidal ....

Surface drive is only for u if u gonna own 2 boats. Your other boat needs to be a 27 foot contender with twin engines to handle lake Ontario . Just my boat.02

I guess should have worded it a little different. I would not hunt open water when it was that rough. Was thinking more along the lines of getting caught out in it. Would be nice to know I could get home. Or might have to go around an open point here or there. Two boats is really what I need but that won’t be happening so I have to go one way or the other and I am leaning toward skinny water but will be running open water to and from and also the St Lawrence on calmer days.

The real problem is that there are no knowledgeable dealers in the area and most mud motor owners here have limited experience.

Other thoughts on SD's in freezing weather?

Been doing allot of reading here but as soon I think I have one part figure out I find a post that has me second guessing my ideas.


Question, would you run this bay area in a 25 outboard?

Would depend on the day. Have done crazier things, that’s for sure. 18ft Alumaweld 20 miles offshore in the Gulf, several times, allot of good fishing though.

You will require heavy performance modifications to your motor to increase load carrying capability and to push the V-Bottom. If your marsh is sandy or rocky bottom versus mud I'd strongly recommend…
Yes allot of sand and some rocks. Does even a shallow V make that much difference? I do not want to get into motor mods and don’t care about being ‘faster’. BUT I do want to now that I can load up and get there before lunch. What I figure from reading the forum is I can get 22-25 with a stock PD on a 18 x 56/60 loaded?

IMsO ~ Big water, Big swells, 30/40 mph winds, = Very Big Boat ....... I wouldn't even consider a SurfaceDriveMudMotorMachineThang fo this application ..... unless yore feelin' suicidal ....

Agree, Duck Water Blackhawk would fit that bill. Again, more concerned with getting back if it gets rough and how a SD will act, not heading out in it. Used this as an example because I have been caught in it before with no warning. Suicidal, see above…

I run a gatortraxx 3 man gator hide with a 35 Mudbuddy. Hunt the st.lawrence , Ottawa and lake O all with this boat and motor. For cold weather hunting a s.d is great no more freezing issues with these motors I hunted 4 times with -20 weather no problems at all. As for ruff water its a little Harry and the Jon boats are a wet ride the waves hit the front and splash over the boat. This boat is 16' and I have never been worried in the ruff stuff I think it all depends on the person as I have had buds no wanting to go on some days I went an never had any problems. I will say this you will want to go bigger on the motor as I would say my speed with a good wind an rough waves slowes to Maby 10 to 12 mph at first you will think its lots of power but after you get used to it you will want more also the more power you have the quicker you get on plane. If you are loaded down and have big waves with a lot of wind you need to get on top too get any speed up if you are not able to get on plane I could see this as being a proublem. I am going to up grade my motor this year to a 45 mag which is better for heavy loaded boats in rough water I like you don't need speed. But it should be more than all I will need. If you have any other questions or would like to go out in my boat some time let me know. Cheers., terry.

I'm in a similar situation. I run Wisconsin river a lot. Lots a rocks. Lots a logs. Lots a sand. Lots a muck. Pends where ya go. I also run da biggest marsh in WI. Nothin but muck logs and cat tails. As fer river runnin, I have it memorized where da rocks are. You'll hit everything I mentioned above in a single run. Just make sure ta avoid da rocks. I used ta run an outboard. Problem was I'd have ta avoid da rocks just da same and I still couldn't get through da muck.

As fer big water and a V boat my dad and I used ta take a 14 foot jon that I can carry myself with a 15 hp motor ta go fishin on lake michigan. Just watch the weather and how far ya run. I would recommend not runnin a V bottom. The 5 degrees won't cut enough ta make a difference in comparison ta a flat and it won't perform worth a chit either.

The only advice I can give ya as far as yer concerns is take a gps and run a "clean route" where ya didn't hit nothin and save it. If ya got rocks 2 feet apart all over ya ain't never gonna get through it but if their 20 feet apart ya can get away doin it. I never hit a rock at full force. I know where they are and if I don't I take er slow.

Hi fellas. I am a new member. I have been duck hunting and bowfishing for years. I have taken a sixteen and half foot xpress bass boat and hulled it out for a duck hunting rig. I am building my own surface drive mud motor. Just wanted to know if any of ya'll younger fellas can help an old man out. I am seriously considering getting a 44 horsepower Generac motor due to the horsepower and torque range that it offers at 3600 rpms and for the money that it is. Has anyone used or know of anyone that has used these motors and do they put out the torque that they claim?

sorry guys im new at this .i see how it works now

I would think a custom boat would be in order, flat bottom transitioning to a mod 'v' starting at the rake to the bow, with some extra height up front in case of waves. Twin 1200 gph bilge pumps. You can mod your motor later. The flat will help in the shallows, and the mod v will help with waves, and you can transition as steep as you want with the v, to a point. I would go with 24 inch sides and 4 inch tall longitudinal ribs, with a sealed floor for floatation. (about 1500 lbs floatation, depending on width.)

a 35 will get you there, but with this boat and the loads you're contemplating, expect to mod in the future. the extra power is cheap insurance for when you need it. cutting sides to 21 saves weight, you lose the security of taller sides. and every other decision will be a compromise, etc.

I would not run a mod v all the way back to the transom, they suck in the mud.

You mentioned the Phowler boats....they look like some heavy duty hulls and probably would be something worth looking at.

I don't get it...if the Phowler is full custom, why can't you get the hunt deck with it?

I didn't say anything about foam, I said floatation from a SEALED floor. As in open cavity full of air, but sealed. An aluminum floor on top of 4 inch ribs, welded all around.

Frick foam. Foam is the devil.