Appreciate the response blue that helps. I was really trying to figure out if there were any dudes with PD gen 4's that had level 3 builds that we're happy with the results. Because the gen IV is a little newer ever though it is supposed to be the same as a gen 2 gear ratio I didn't know if there were any issues figuring out workin the prop etc. If I go down that road I would share my learning experience. It ain't like sharing a duck spot, havin guys that are happy with their motors and don't put themselves in the poor house trying to figure shit out is good for moving things forward with the industry.

On another note rumor has it that PD will refer you to someone that does a similar efi package to a level 3. Anyone have any experience with that?

Conceptually, if the ratio is 1:2 turning WO it may only be able to push you at X speed, if you are running 1:1.52 the prop will be spinning faster for the given load and may be able to rev a little higher as it is able to push that load slightly easier. Could be wrong, but this is the type of thing that I'm trying to get a handle on because I think we spend all of our time talking about mods and HP/TQ but the improvements really come where the rubber meets the road, a la prob meets the water. The angle of the drive shaft on a PD at optimum speed is more angle than a GTR and obviously the gear reduction on a GTR is less than a PD which also has a big impact. Would be nice for someone to step up and take a bit of the mystery out of all the variables. I'm curious as to whether we should be more concerned with torque vs. horsepower. Obviously prop design is huge and I feel like we do not have many options and feel that if someone had the know how they shoudl step up and say hey for PD,GTR, whatever owners, I have a system that can analyze what you are working with and get you where you need to be to achieve what you are looking for. I really am not crazy about the idea of sending a prop back and forth trying to get right.

I'm sure there are guys out there that could make this process a lot easier for all of us. I read about the stumpgrinder prop and shit looked awesome, it sounded like dude man needed an order of 50 to get the lot made, I'm sure we have enough people that would throw down on that.

If you think about it in terms of a car runnign through the gears, yes dropping from second into third (say 1:2 to 1:1.52) would drop revs, but you used 2nd to get up to that speed. I'm not sure you can compare boat motors and gear ratios the same way. I've heard the gen IV's carry loads better than gen III which doesn't make sense to me. More top end makes sense.

Surface drive props are a delicate balance between whether you want speed, load carrying or mud eating. The stock props are typically a happy balance. In order to gain speed, you will likely give up hole shot and mud eating ability....and vice versa.

Exactly, when I hear that guy running an 1854 tdx with a level 3 gen IV PD which will be about 53 hp at 4300+ and only running 30, it makes me think that he definitely needs some prop work. He may not get mid 30's but he should at least be up past 32 with a light load. I think some of the GTR EFI guys have been able to run 32-34 without working the prop because of the lower gear reduction and three blade prop. In theory he should do better in heavy vegetation, but I still would think he'd be running faster than 30. I say that I want to carry a load better but hey, if i drop 3k on good heads, cam, lifters, tuner, exhaust, and was only runnin 30 when I was running 27 on gen III efi I'd be wanting to figure out what was up.

I'll have my new motor by next weekend and I'm think I'll be running 28-29 with a new gen IV w/ baffled Voodoo. If not I'll be scratchin my head a bit. 1754 x series.

The 1:2 if propped the same won't lug the engine down as much when adding load using the same prop. It will also allow a more aggressive prop (larger diameter, more pitch, or more cup) for the same engine speed and same load. What people seem to be reporting, though, is that they weren't able to get as much speed because they weren't finding that spot with the prop work where it performed any better (most people's gauge being speed) than the old ratio, which is close to the gen 4 ratio. May be the 1:2 just needed more hp to truly benefit (which is a function of torque over time). It can be discussed and debated and experimented with, but ultimately, the majority seem happier with the 1:1.5ish range than the 1:2 on the pd. Prop experiments might prove the 1:2 to show ideal for some, though.

Russ, I think that's the issue. Motor just didn't have enough power for the 1:2. PD told me that people are reporting that the gen IV 1.1.52 carries a load better than the 1:2. Don't want to put words in anyones mouth but anyway. Sounds like the gen IV will be a better platform to work from-mods, prop work, etc.

My only complaint with the 1:2 is that my RPMs are high enough that I have to have prop work if I wanna go further with the motor. My buddies with the gen 2 PDs, GTRs and mud buddies don't have to worry about being on the coils cause they got the room to gain some rpms....and not hafta dick with playing the prop game. It wouldn't be so bad but they're all faster on top end than me too lol

don't have a hopped up motor, but I can tell you I love the 2:1 lower unit on my pd. it has way more balls in the lilies than my 1.5 lower unit. unlike most people, If I want to go fast I just pull off the pd and put on the 90 merc. lol

Mine would still be stock too if it toted a load the way I was told it would

Would there be much advantage in having a stock prop worked on stock motor?

As stated, the stock prop is a happy medium. It's "good" in most situations. If you are willing to sacrifice something to gain something else, your options are limitless. You can spend thousands of dollars playing the prop game and may or not find something that does everything better than a stock prop. Then if you found something that you like, you may or may not be able to duplicate it again. Its a crap shoot.

If you want to go faster and lose load carrying, that's an easy change. If you want more load carrying, and willing to sacrifice top end, that's easy too. If you want something better all around, be prepared to spend a bunch of time and money figuring it out.

I assure you that you aren't the first person to think about it. This topic has been beaten to death.

If bill gates had a mudmotor with mods and started the prop game Microsoft stock would go down