MudmotorTalk.com
http://mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/

The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor Engine
http://mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70443		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  rangerp [ Fri May 19, 2017 11:28 pm ]
Post subject:  The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor Engine
A thought occurred to me today (it is rare). I am sure I am not the first to think of it this way.

So when I looked at Tohatsu Outboards, I can pay $5400 for a 40 HP, or I can pay a mere $200 more and get the 50 HP. The block is the same, the weight is the same, the 50 just has a different head and a few other parts. Two hundred bones for an extra ten HP is not bad.

Now compare something like the Mud Buddy HDR 37EFI for $8295. If you want 7 extra HP by getting the 4400 Black Death, you will pay an extra $1555. That is a huge difference versus what you pay for a HP increase with an outboard, a jet ski, a snow mobile a motorcycle....

I also looked at the GT XD 37 EFI and what it would cost for me to get it modded by Delta Performance from the start. It is three grand more.

The thought that hit me today is that with the mud motor, you get to pay twice. You get to pay for the stock head, valves, springs, exhaust..... then you get to pay for the performance additions, and the labor to put it all on. That means if you buy performance from the start, there will be a set of stock heads, exhaust, and a bunch of other brand new parts laying in a box in someone's shop with the name Ranger P on them. I will have purchased brand new engine parts that I never use.

Would it not be cool if you could just buy the basic block, and then purchase all the performance parts to build the final product?

Even cooler would be for someone to just build an engine from the ground up that was designed from the start to push aluminum boats through swamps and flooded timber.

My sniveling will not save me a red cent. I am about ready to pull the trigger on the GT XD 37EFI. I am now having mental debates on getting it built from the very start.
Author:  brycecheramie [ Sat May 20, 2017 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
The difference between outboards and mudmotors you say.
Outboards are designed to run on boats.
Briggs is designed to run on a lawn mower. I agree though, the cost is ridiculous for these things. But everyone keeps paying, so people will keep charging...
Author:  flint87 [ Sat May 20, 2017 5:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Author:  SETx Longtail [ Sat May 20, 2017 6:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Good ol supply and demand.

But if that's what your after, just buy your whole unit from Delta ready to roll with 0 hours. Just hang onto your wallet.
Author:  calvin [ Sat May 20, 2017 6:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Yes it a bunch of money. Where I live there are only 4 mud motors around that I know of and they are all MudBuddy. 2 stock 35 and a Black Death. I'm running a GTR35 with Stage 3 delta and they want my motor. We have High water at this point and keep looking back for my buddies with outboards and they can't follow me. So 1754 GatorTrax 3/16 hull, 9 gallon of fuel, 6 adults, 2 coolers, and a hammer prop, held speeds of 25 all evening in big water yesturday. It cost, but how COOL is that.
Author:  brickgw [ Sat May 20, 2017 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
There's a reason every time someone comes on MMT and asks which mud motor to get or how they're about to get thier first mud motor the response is usually "get an outboard unless you absolutely have to have a mud motor." Cost is one of the reasons. The briggs was not built to push an 18ft boat with 4 fatasses and 300 or so decoys through the muck in single digit weather. They honestly dont haul a load worth a fuck and that's why there's a market for performance work. You can probably count the number of performance parts dealers in the US on 2 hands which means they can damn near name the price. Like SETx said supply and demand. The real winner here is Briggs....they have the market dominated and dont really have to even produce a product that meets the customers needs at all and they still sell. Not to mention all the extra parts getting sold because we tear the fuck outta these things on the reg. Briggs got it made right now. A player in the powerhead dept that would actually take the market seriously would be the best thing to happen for us. Unfortunately I dont see that happening any too quickly.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk
Author:  SETx Longtail [ Sat May 20, 2017 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
As these things gain popularity and become more mainstream (as much as we all hate to see it happen) the likelihood of someone with a real powerhead stepping up increases greatly. The Briggs has "done the job" for the most part with the exception of whatever numerous manufacturing defects and design flaws have been present over the years. The GM engine Boss is using is a step in the right direction if nothing else. It may not be the answer to everyone's problems but it's an option, and more options are what we need. We need another engine manufacturer to recognize the market as something other than a novelty. When that happens, sit back and watch it'll get real interesting.
Author:  flint87 [ Sat May 20, 2017 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Author:  SETx Longtail [ Sat May 20, 2017 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
I don't know how close to "about to be" they are but, I will definitely agree that they have done little to nothing to improve the quality of the product they provide to our market. There have been changes made here and there along the way and the latest addition of EFI, however troublesome people have or haven't found it. But largely yes, I feel like they have sat back knowing for the most part they had little to worry about when it came to "us". Nobody is offering anything to compete. The only company who has anything in the ballpark right now is Kawasaki, and they've let it be known they are not interested in any way with what we do for one reason or another.
Author:  cb5331 [ Sat May 20, 2017 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
I mean they suck, but I'll give them some credit where it's due. They have worked pretty hard to lock down this market, and produced several "marine specific" models just for us. The 4700 coils are for the mudmotor crowd. That's totally unnecessary for a lawnmower. They pushed pretty hard to get the efi's to our market before any others. They've changed quite a few other things that we constantly bitch about too...the case gasket to wet sealant...the valve job from the factory...stuff they never did before and likely never would have if not for the constant bitching from our market. Not that it's really any better than it was before, but they do appear to at least be trying.
Author:  CypressCritter [ Sat May 20, 2017 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
0150cc_rotapower%20vs%20vanguard.jpgI contacted a Freedom Motor Company, they make a rotatory engine that is a lot less in the horse power vs weight ratio, 120 hp(1060cc)@68lbs or 150hp(1300cc) both twin rotators. But they are water cooled. some say the lower rpms is a little weak on the torque. There are race boats that have those types of engines, they show you can go up to 6 rotors for increased power. They are not interested in nothing but a mass production type deal. But then they are in California close to the Gay Bay, that may be what is blinding them.
Btw way found 1 youtube video with Mud motor with rotary but it never shows it in the water.
Author:  SETx Longtail [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
I'm not saying there hasn't been any changes but I'll disagree that they are "trying" :lol:

Over the course of however many years they have been selling to our market, those changes are very small in the big scheme. The "valve job" is a joke and pretty much useless with the way they use sub-par materials and manufacturing processes. I know it would increase price to some degree but I for one would pay a little more for a powerhead I didn't need to tear into with less than 100hours just to make run like it should.
Author:  cb5331 [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Author:  SETx Longtail [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
From what I've seen they have a much better designed and produced cylinder head. That's really where a lot of my beef lies with Briggs.
Author:  cb5331 [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Author:  CypressCritter [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Author:  cb5331 [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Author:  SETx Longtail [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
I'm good as long as we can still all at least agree they suck :lol:
Author:  cb5331 [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
:mrgreen:
Author:  Russ [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Author:  cb5331 [ Sat May 20, 2017 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Weathers?
Author:  Russ [ Sat May 20, 2017 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Yeah.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
Author:  rangerp [ Sat May 20, 2017 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
I think I said it before, but I believe the real ticket would be for a big company to take the shallow water outboard concept globally.

If a company the size of Honda would engineer a series of engines and lowers from the ground up, and then market to outdoorsman, duck hunters, commercial and sport fisherman, trappers, folks in Thailand, countries in South America near the Amazon basin, and any where in the world that has large amounts of shallow water, swamp, vegetation, and mud. It could also be marketed to those that do rescue operation in flooded areas. Being able to push it for military use would also be a huge market.

This may sound dumb, but I believe if Hollywood ever did an action adventure movie that highlighted mud motor use, it would increase the demand quickly. Most folks do not even know they exist.
Author:  rangerp [ Sat May 20, 2017 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Swamps, marshes, and wet lands the world over could use a shallow water outboard. From the Sudan, Congo, Thailand, India, and Amazon.
Author:  rangerp [ Sat May 20, 2017 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Sudan, Congo, and India
Author:  rangerp [ Sat May 20, 2017 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Thailand
Author:  50fps [ Sun May 21, 2017 8:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
If the market would have been behind Kohler, I feel it would have been a better choice than the Briggs in the long run. I do realize that even Kohler has issues, but their blocks are definitely better constructed.
Author:  Will C [ Sun May 21, 2017 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Awsome pics rangerp. One thing i will say being a former outboard wrench is that many new outboards are built with the throwaway theory in mind similar to alot of cars these days. Chrome coated cylinders etc. we pay more for what we got but like an old chevy parts are available and straight foward fixes
Author:  rangerp [ Mon May 22, 2017 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
No more thinking about it. I pulled the trigger and purchased a Gator Tail XD 37 EFI with the Delta Performance mod 3.

I might have to sit in the dark and eat cold mush for a few months, but I should have one solid boat with a motor that will push it.

I hope the motor is done by the time the boat is finished.
Author:  brickgw [ Mon May 22, 2017 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Author:  SETx Longtail [ Mon May 22, 2017 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Congratulations! Should be a real nice setup!
Author:  huck Finn [ Mon May 22, 2017 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Awesome news, congratulations !!

H Finn
Author:  cb5331 [ Mon May 22, 2017 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The High Cost of HP, - Paying Twice for the Mud Motor En
Congrats
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 6 hours
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/