35 Wheelin'
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| .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin http://mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3918 |
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| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
The gun will be a break action to be used during primitive weapons deer season only. I hunt open marsh and need to be able to shoot 200 yds. accurately, more would be even nicer. Let's hear it. |
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| Author: | coondik [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
35 Wheelin'
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| Author: | dead animal [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
i'd just hunt with your normal rifle durring muzzleloader season. that;'s what i do. 
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| Author: | schrieverboy [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
You'll do it till you get caught.... 45/70... |
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| Author: | Ace [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
I have a Ruger #1 in 45-70, and a Marlin .444 Prefer the #1 I hunt in thick woods, no long shots. 300 grain bullet knocks the schiat out of our whitetails we run across. They both have about the same drop after 100 yds, none of my shots are longer than that. I like the big bullet in brush. So if you're shooting thru heavy brush, then either will do. The Marlin has an advantage with the magazine, the #1 is a single shot. I just switched to the 325 grain (45-70) Leverlution (sp?) and that puppy bites on both ends. I think the .444 offers a 285 grain bullet ifn you want something a little smaller. Either one makes a golf ball size exit wound!! The 45-70 leverlution is pushing around 1800 fps, and the 444 close to a little over 2000 fps if I remember right. But neither of them is cheap! Edit: I just googled them above; the 45-70 is a 325 grain bullet traveling 2025 fps; and the 444 is a 265 grain bullet traveling 2325 fps |
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| Author: | coondik [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
Stumpy: i have 3- H&R 45/70's and your welcome to try one out (don't ask how i ended up with that many). Just ordered a TC with a 35 whelen and 25-06 barrels! Like Ace said: you'll be hard pressed to make a shot beyond 100 yds! Had better success wit a .444 hittin' targets beyond de 100yd mark. Never actually made a shot on a deer further than 50yds with either round and those forkers wreck shop on a deer Switchin to de 35 for better down range accuracy.
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| Author: | Ace [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | netman [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
Stump, get the 45/70 and I will work up some loads for you. I have several 4570 rifles from lever action Winchester to Old Remington rolling blocks. I can and do cast many different bullets for this caliber. I have a Gould hollow point bullet mold that drops bullets around 350grns. These are some major deer thumpers. Let me know Randy DA you da man! |
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| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
here's my points... the .444 offers some smaller bullets and avgs. 300 fps more muzzle velocity which leads me to believe it will have less drop at 200 yds. Where I hunt I will more than likely NOT have a shot within 100 yds. I HAVE to have minimum 200 yd. accuracy capability..... that is a deal breaker for me. Most of todays advanced muzzleloaders can do that & that's what I'll go with if I have to. Rod, what's dat 35 whelen u speak of? |
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| Author: | POKER1 [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | POKER1 [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 7:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | netman [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
Stump you should not underestimate the accuracy of the big bores. At two hundred meters my buffalo rifle will shoot a ten shot group at 2" with a tang sight. If you are going to be shooting at 200 yds there will be no problems. I will see if I have some pics of some of the groups I have laid out with my big bores. Randy |
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| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | coondik [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
Maybe I shoulda done my homework! Not exactly sure wats up in Miss. I like DA's take on de issue
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| Author: | netman [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
Ben you have to remember that the most powerful factory load that you can buy off the shelf is suited for the weakest action available. The weakest action is most likely a trapdoor rifle. I have a Winchester 1886 45-70 lever action rifle that is dang near a one holer at one hundred yards and just at 2" at two hundred. But this is with reloads. However they are moderate reloads and not some elephant load. There is a forum just for the H and R rifles and I have seen some very impressive groups from the 45-70 posted there. I believe that if you would buy one of these single shot break action rifles you will be able to get something worked up in no time. Here is some pics of groups I have shot with the lever action rifle. These are mild loads and very little buck to them. The top load is my whitetail load for out of state hunting. I was using a Marble tang site for these groups. These pics of groups were from my reloading manual that I keep for all my rifles. |
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| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
I like da CVA Optima with da heavier barrel.... shit, it ain't but $250, I guess I'll snatch one up & see for myself. I'll be hittin u up for sum of dem hand loads soon.... What about buffalo bore ammo? They call it lever gun ammo.... is it too powerful for a break action? |
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| Author: | BayouStateHunter [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
I can tell you that the H&R's are not a bad rifle and are surprisingly accurate for what you pay for them. If you can, you may want to wait to see if the laws change. I assume that LA will follow MS's laws and allow modern guns into the mix soon, i.e., Thompson/Center Encores. MS started this crap allowing centerfires during muzzleloading season. LA followed suit 2 years after. MS just changed the law to allow additional calibers and makes of firearms, so you can assume LA will do the same. I hunt in MS and bought a H&R Handi in 45-70 a few years back. It shoots pretty damn good out to 200 yards. You just have to know it's limitations in regards to range. It does knock the f' out of deer when u connect A bunch of guys in my lease use them also with very good results. We all shoot the Hornady Leverrevolution rounds. If you do end up buying one this year, the 444 is a no brainer. The ballistics allow give you a bigger margin of error out to 200 yards and better your chances at 300. Muzzle 100 200 300 444 -1.7 +3.0 -1.4 -18.6 45-70 -1.5 +3.0 -4.1 -27.8 pretty obvious after looking at Hornady's ballistics with the lever revolution loads. |
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| Author: | netman [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
Stump Buffalo ammo is a major thumper ammo. I would email/call them about the ammo in regards to rifle your referring to. I had some pics somewhere on a 600 meter Ram target that has a ten shot group at or around 6-7 inches. As you can tell I am a big fan of the 45-70. I have been shooting one for at least 20 yrs. Randy |
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| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
dat handi rifle just don't do it for me with it's little short skinny barrel... I got a RWS Diana .177 cal. pellet rifle with more barrel than dat. |
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| Author: | jus10inla [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
ben i got the H&R buffalo classic.. 45/70.. w a 32 inch barrel.. it does kill on both ends like said b4 on paper.. but with a deer i never noticed the recoil. i shoot the hornady leveroution bullets.. no complaints here. put a 3-9 x40 nikon omega BDC on top of it. leme know if u want to shoot it. i shot 2 doe's last yr with it at abut 175 yds n both dropped in there tracks. |
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| Author: | BayouStateHunter [ Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | Crews [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | coondik [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | jus10inla [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
the buffalo classic is the H&R, just with an extra long barrel. drilled and tapped for scope mount. http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.asp http://www.hr1871.com/images/zoom_ultra_buffalo.jpg |
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| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
interesting.... da H&R Buffalo Classic I looked at wasn't drilled & tapped. |
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| Author: | jus10inla [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
i bought mine from simmons in north la. next time i go to my dads house i'l take a few phone pix n send em to ya. i aint got any of my guns here since i aint got an alarm system yet. |
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| Author: | RC [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
Given that list of choices posted earlier, I think it was the Tradition's pursuit with wilson barrel in 444 marlin would be the one I'd opt for......didn't spend too much time lookin at the others though. |
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| Author: | Crews [ Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
if you're not going to load your own ammo... I'd definitely say .444 |
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| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
I heard back from Buffalo Bore and they said their .45-70 can be used in a break action rifle. |
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| Author: | jus10inla [ Fri Aug 21, 2009 7:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
ben,.. took this picture of my dads, he hasnt put a scope on his yet. there is already one spot that has been drilled n tapped that u can see in the photo.. the rear sight comes off and that is where the other one is. |
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| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
Thanks Justin, I was able to find a couple like that... even one with a scope mounted on it already. I was torn between da H&R Buffalo Classic & da CVA Optima Elite (which claims 2-3" groups @ 200 yds.)...... I had more faith in da Buffalo Classic gettin da job done with dat long ass barrell, but it's real cumbersome. Da Optima Elite on da other hand is a damn comfortable rifle and has a great feel. So I put da purchase down on da CVA.... I got plenty time to shoot it & if it don't meet expectations I can shuck it & still buy me a Buffalo Classic. |
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| Author: | stumpgrinder [ Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
| Author: | Crews [ Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: .45/70 govt vs. .444 marlin |
I can attest that a .45 lead cast gas check 405 grn. bullett can definitely but a whoopin' on whatever you shoot, and do it out to 200 yds. buffalo bore makes some pretty salty ammo! |
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