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 lab traing question 
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Post Re: lab traing question
bluesky2012 wrote:
hvfc6040 wrote:
bluesky2012 wrote:
Still, neither of you have explained WHY you don’t need to force fetch, other than simply saying you don’t need to.

What does force fetch do, and why would you not need it to train to whatever your standard is?

Still have not heard either of you be able to articulate that point likely because you don’t know how to train a dog nor understand why or where it falls into their training pipeline.


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Nobody owes you an explanation.

Your problem lies in the fact that you think that any dog that cant force fetch is inferior, and in your exact words, "crappy".

You really need to take the hate down a notch. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a dog that knows sit and kennel, never been trained then goes out and retrieves ducks. So what if its not ff'd. They are called retrievers because they retrieve, by your exacting standards we should rename them labrador force fetchers.


I guarantee I can force fetch your dog. I’ve seen plenty of dogs of all shapes, colors and temperaments be FFed and I guarantee you didn’t try the right methods in the right succession to ensure success and momentum with your dog. Did you ear pinch, jowl pinch, e-collar, toe pinch, de-bug, etc to ensure your dog clearly knew what was happening and make sure you tailored your approach to its own identity?

No crappy is 90% of the dogs I see at the ramp that bark, are disobedient, break, cant run multiples and can’t run well handled blinds. If they can’t do that, they aren’t worth having in the boat and can be a safety risk.

There is no hate, I just don’t like when people have an incomplete opinion on something yet scream it as fact. The fact is, no one here has actually explained why people FF and what is gained or lost by not following that process. If you want to help OP, provide an informed opinion. I have.


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Thats your problem, you ASSume too much.

Youre so stuck on this "mainstream" crap that you cant understand the simple fact that not all dogs will FF. Period. And to top it off, you DONT HAVE TO FF to have a retrieving dog. Does it help? No doubt about it. Is it required? Absolutely not.

Just because a dog wont ff doesnt mean jack shit. My lab (who we have tried every method of FF you mention and then some) will be a retrieving machine. Her obedience is top notch, retrieves are almost flawless. What more could a duck hunter want?

If I send my dog on a retrieve, it makes the retrieve, brings my duck to me and holds it for 10 minutes until I tell it otherwise, and has never completed a FF program, where is the issue?


Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:56 am
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Post Re: lab traing question
Good mouth habits are a nice side benefit of FF'ing, but the reason dogs are FF'ed is primarily to lay the groundwork for running good cold blinds.

I'm not getting into the "meat dog" versus "competition dog" debate except to say most of the dogs I see out in the field could be better trained.


Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:08 pm
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Post Re: lab traing question
CatSquirrel wrote:
Good mouth habits are a nice side benefit of FF'ing, but the reason dogs are FF'ed is primarily to lay the groundwork for running good cold blinds.


It took dozens of posts for someone to answer the question I kept posting. Thanks.


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Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:38 pm
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Post Re: lab traing question
bluesky2012 wrote:
CatSquirrel wrote:
Good mouth habits are a nice side benefit of FF'ing, but the reason dogs are FF'ed is primarily to lay the groundwork for running good cold blinds.


It took dozens of posts for someone to answer the question I kept posting. Thanks.


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You’re welcome bluesky.

Is FF strictly necessary for a lot of “meat dogs”? Probably not. But, most hunters want a dog that simply goes out and gets their birds back to them by any means possible, so for them it’s not worth the time to FF. And I can understand that point of view. Not that I agree with it, but I can understand.

Let’s face it. Most hunters break their dogs out a few weeks before hunting season, throw a few marks, maybe run some rudimentary blinds, and then call it good. If that works for them, who am I to argue?

Most dogs that pick up lots of birds for a living (guide dogs, HT dogs, and FT dogs) by necessity have to be FF’ed because they have to run good crisp blinds with a lot of suction.

In the end, it’s really about what you, as a retriever owner, are happy with.


Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:58 pm
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Post Re: lab traing question
CatSquirrel wrote:
bluesky2012 wrote:
CatSquirrel wrote:
Good mouth habits are a nice side benefit of FF'ing, but the reason dogs are FF'ed is primarily to lay the groundwork for running good cold blinds.


It took dozens of posts for someone to answer the question I kept posting. Thanks.


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You’re welcome bluesky.

Is FF strictly necessary for a lot of “meat dogs”? Probably not. But, most hunters want a dog that simply goes out and gets their birds back to them by any means possible, so for them it’s not worth the time to FF. And I can understand that point of view. Not that I agree with it, but I can understand.

Let’s face it. Most hunters break their dogs out a few weeks before hunting season, throw a few marks, maybe run some rudimentary blinds, and then call it good. If that works for them, who am I to argue?

Most dogs that pick up lots of birds for a living (guide dogs, HT dogs, and FT dogs) by necessity have to be FF’ed because they have to run good crisp blinds with a lot of suction.

In the end, it’s really about what you, as a retriever owner, are happy with.


Agreed but I’d still like to reinforce, the most likely way to have a dog that performs to any level is to use a proven mainstream program which will in turn involve FF. Don’t skip steps or you risk not accomplishing what you want.


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Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:20 pm
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Post lab traing question
Edited for double post


Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:23 pm
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