I live in Minnesota and I'm looking to buy a duck hunting boat. I'd like to get a surface drive not for mud, but for weeds (rice, slop, milfoil, bogs, cattails, etc.--stuff that clogs my current Mercury outboard), to be able to go in shallow water (where I currently have to trim up my outboard and idle) and for ice (and not having to worry about my lower unit freezing). So 90% of the distance would be going through deep, open water with 2-3' waves. It's only the last 10% that I'd want to be able to power through stuff that an outboard can't. We don't have the large mud flats or flooded timber (just the occasional downed wood).

What boat/hull should I get? I've ridden in flat bottom jons where my kidneys took such a beating, that I thought I was going to piss blood. I'd like something that has a smooth, dry ride in open water with the ability to get into fairly shallow areas (again, not like you guys down South where you're in actual mud--I'm talking 10" water). If I didn't want the capability to get back into the thick vegetation, or really shallow areas, then no question I'd get a mod-v with an outboard (like an Alumacraft Waterfowler 16), but it seems like the SD are perfect for both--just don't know about the hulls.

Any suggestions? A mod V with float pods? What are other guys up North using on large lakes that get super rough?? For motors, I think I've decided on the GTR 35HP.

Thanks for any advice--also would like to hear from people running SDs on Mod-V hulls and what type of performance they're getting.

for the love of god do not get pods!! they do not work with surface drives.what it sounds like to me you just need a jack plate or a jet foot. on the other hand, you will not see the performance on a mod v like you will on a hull built for a mm. for your apllication i would say you would like an excel(high sides, mod v rake, flat bottom) they make a series with a kik up plate for outboards(if you hit somthing at slow speed it will let the outboard to go up and down softly with out damaging the outboard or the transom) they also make a verson for mud motors(.125 hull) but i think you would need a modded motor to push it suffiently,
how ever gator trax and i saw a gator tail wth mod v rakes and you can get a wide open layout or alot of accesories so pick your poison.

hope this helps,trey

What waters you running?

My 3/16 pointed bow cuts through waves real nice.

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I know of 2 people here running MM's on a mod v. In open water you wouldn't know the difference, if you ain't dragging your azz across a dry mud flat you probably don't have the real need for a flat bottom. The conditions you describe show that you're not gonna be touching bottom, so a mod v is probably gonna kelp you in the rough water, or at least a mod v rake w/ a flat bottom, like an excel.

One is a 35MB on a grizzly, the other is a 35MB on a 16' polarkraft. The main thing I would worry about with whatever you get, is to make sure you go at least 18' long, and in that size waters go with a 54" bottom. It will hold a load better, and be safer in the 3' chop. Running a 16' boat in that water ain't too bad, but if you ever break down or somehow get stopped in 3' waves, it's gonna be scary. They definitely don't handle chop that big like an 18', I know from experience.

Thanks again, DeathMetalDukk! I really appreciate the advise.

I used to run a 1650 xpress with a 35 mb and it sucked. Wouldn't carry a load for shit. I would steer clear of any boat without a smooth bottom. You can still get a mod-v but make sure it a smooth bottom. If I were you I would call phowler boats and tell them your situation and see it they can build you something to fit your needs. If you don't mind a road trip to gatortail I would get them to build you a mod v boat with 24 inch sides. Wider does not mean it will always be better in rough water. Side height makes more of a difference.

Depending on your load, you will need a lot of horsepower to plow through heavy chop. I would consider a stage 1 motor with whatever manufacturer you decide

I've had mod-v boats and I can't tell the difference that there is a rougher ride with the true flat boats. Don't forget that a cheaper mod-v is usually thinner aluminum with horizontal stringers compared to .125 gauge and longitudinal stringers on a true mud boat. It will make a difference in the long run as far as durability.
My advice is to get a mud boat made for mud motors and save yourself the hassle of selling a cheaper one later. I run the Mississippi and notice a difference between the old mod-v I had and all the true mud hulls I've had. I'd never waste my money on a mod-v again.

Shallow water marine, and phowler boats are both south of you in Iowa. I don't think either are terribly far. Mainstream in Winona is a godevil dealer, but I wouldn't recommend them for you.


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I run directly across a 23,000 acre impoundment in WI with a Phowler 1760 being pushed by a 36PD. I run 3 footers (not fun) but can honestly say the boat handles them great. I had that motor on a mod V previous to the Phowler, and the Phowler blows it away in heavy waves...

Call Shallow Water Marine and talk with the owner. He is a GTR dealer and sells Alweld hulls (I owned one previously and it was built very well, but braced across instead of longitudinally for mud motor applications). While they are only .100 thick, the transom angle is correct for a GTR. He runs a 1756 with a 35 GTR during hunting season and puts an outboard on it during the summer. I have talked with him about exactly the same thing. Us Yankees need a different style of boat. Too bad none of the large scale manufactures don't realize this. Gatortrax makes a "hybrid" model, and I recently saw a Gator-Tail posted on here that had a 3/16 smooth bottom and modified-V front. Hopefully these "hybrids" take off and a few more manufacturers start offering them.

Shoot me a PM. I may have a low hour 2009 GTR for you. Brad

Don't buy an allweld


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Me and 2 other buddys all run 18 foot Phowlers on the Mississippi river and we love em.. They handle well in the shallows and big water.

Check out Phowler's Extreme V series, they make one hell of a mod. v hull with up to 24" sides
http://phowlerboatcompany.com/?page_id=37

^this^


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Austinbear... thats the boat I have...It does awsome in the heavy waves and I can go anywhere the true flats can go.

^when I grow up I plan to procure this boat in an 1848^

I still need to fill my piggy bank before that happens though.


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I've spent the last 5 hours (at work) surfing Phowler's website. I can't believe I never knew about them till you all told me. I think they might be the one!

im runnin a 1754 war eagle mod v and it handles waves pretty good, and with a stock 35 empty gets a little over 27mph.. id get an 18 footer though for more speed and load but that boat does good in the waves with an sd and can still go in practically no water on mud flats

I get the mod v and the idea of a dry ride. A boat should hold up fine 99 percent of the time. My thoughts are if I have a motor that allows me to jump logs etc why not match it to a hull that can handle it as well. Even if you don't do it everyday, eventually you will want to when you see others out there with capable rigs doing it. I'd pick a complete rig that is all around capable and designed for mm use so you can get the most out of it when you need it.

You already have a fishing boat, now go get a rig that can whip some ass.


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I'm running a 32 PD on a 1754 Tracker Mod V. I tried PD and Gatortrax true mud hulls in the rough stuff for an afternoon and that told me everything I needed to know.

I like the discussions about mod V hulls with a true flat bottom as that's prolly what I'll have next. I know my performance really suffers carrying a load (more than 2 hunters), but with 2 up does pretty well. Going a little slower with another body aboard wouldn't be all that bad, but the decrease in performance is shocking. It just digs a big wide hole in the water.

I run an 1856 Phowler Extreme and it handles the mighty Mississippi just fine! Specifically Big Lake area by Alma, North and South end. Was in some nasty chop this summer fishing and boat did great. Side note: Excel makes a good boat too. Don't get an Alweld...Get something made for a mud motor!

The nice thing with Phowler is you can fully customize it.. All you have to do is call down and tell them what you want, If you want a 6 foot gun box put in or 6 pod seats in the boat they will do whatever. You can order it fully custom if you want.. Like mine I had a built in dog platform put in spud poles the extended deck with a hatch up front.. They will build anything you want. and for alot of us up hear its as close as we can get to a custom builder with out driving 1000+ miles to get it.

Amen^


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Thought others might be interested in a response I got from Paul Willging - Owner Illowa Marine/Phowler Boat Company:

"Here are a few pictures of our MV front, this is on a very large boat, but the front is the same design and you can see it clearer on the larger version.

After reviewing your email I think you are moving in the right direction, our boat will have pretty shallow draft, will perform very well with a surface drive in the conditions you noted and will be able to run rough open water very well. The MV style is smoother then a flat jon, it is not meant to be like a Deep V, but will ride comfortable in 3-4' waves. The boat you are seeing is a 2472, this boat runs on Green Bay for diver hunting in 3-6' waves all season, yet they can motor in shallow. With a surface drive on your rig, you will be able to run into the weeds, rice etc. with no issue. We have about 6-7 of our rigs running on Swan Lake and they love them in the junk."

Here's pics

I got the Standard Phowler Extreme. The $210 option is an add on pointed bow to the already standard flat front, this is more for hunters who run timber. Don't think the Big Water Edition is what you want, but the MV option may be a good choice for you. Like I said previously ours handled the summer chop and huge boat traffic just fine. We also broke ice (1-1.5in)this year with it too! Our layout is all custom as well. Very happy with the boat...shouldn't have to buy another one the rest of my hunting career.

Also mod-v hulls that I have been in seem to throw more spray up and then the wind blows it back at ya.

I got da same situation as da op. I had ta go narrow and short fer some o da sloughs I run on back river cricks but in da main channel it gets rough. 2 years ago I tried a mud boat flat bottom and sold it da same year. I don't run mud and get a way better ride outa my mod v. I prolly loose a mph or 2 cause it ain't a flat bottom wit my mud motor but on a half hour run 2 mph don't even equate to an extra minute of run time.

My Uncle J Mod V


I love this boat and Jason is great to deal with. Having the Mod V and the flat bottom is the best of both worlds for me. Feel free to PM me with any questions.